The questions asked were as follows:

Now, the questions for parents (or parents to be) about vaccination. The following questions refer both to the regular vaccinations which are recommended for all children, and to any optional vaccinations which your child may have gotten (such as hepatitis B or flu shots). (This list of questions has been slightly modified from the first posting, to correct a typing mistake which made some questions appear to be addressed only to vaccinators.)

These first questions are meant for people anywhere on the spectrum as far as what vaccinations they chose to give or not give their children. What vaccines did you (will you) choose to give or not give your children? What were your reasons for making the choices you did? How did you go about making your decisions, and what resources did you find helpful in getting the information you needed?

For parents who have vaccinated your children, do you have any advice for parents who are about to have their children vaccinated about things they should be prepared for?

For parents who have not given the recommended infant vaccinations, are you planning to have your children vaccinated later? Why or why not? In particular, would you vaccinate your daughter for rubella when she hits puberty? Why or why not?

===============================================================================

From: Paula Burch

We choose to give our son all of his vaccinations as recommended by the pediatrician. Vaccinations are one of the few true successes of modern medicine, and despite some extremely small risks prevent far, far more agony than they ever cause.

Some who would otherwise choose to have their children vaccinated cannot, for odd medical reasons. These individuals depend absolutely on the rest of the population's being vaccinated. Parents who elect to refuse vaccination for their children, for no better reason than that they've been listening to some quack, put not only themselves but these other children in danger. When a child who cannot be vaccinated dies due to infection from a child who could have been vaccinated but wasn't, the parents of the latter child are morally though not legally guilty of the dead child's murder. When only a small number of children are unvaccinated, the risk is small, but when many elect to refuse vaccinations, the risk of an epidemic becomes quite high, and in some cases this has already been seen on a small scale.

Almost all problems blamed upon the pertussis vaccine actually have had nothing to due with the vaccine, but were observed coincidentally in children who would have had the problems even in the absence of the vaccination.

In no case has our child shown any reaction at all to any of the vaccinations he has received, through 18 months, except for pain immediately after the injection. Even if he had shown some problem, however, I would still be convinced of the necessity of the immunization. A one in a million risk of a side effect is a whole lot better than a one in twenty, or worse, chance of dying. It is my duty as a mother to do what I can to improve my child's chances of good health, and it is extremely clear that immunizations improve the odds tremendously.

At the turn of the century, no more than one or two out of five children could be expected to survive to maturity. Vaccinations are one of the primary reasons why our own children can expect to grow up.

Having said that, I saw no reason to give the hepatitis B vaccine to my newborn. My peditrician gives it when the child is several months older, which seemed preferable to me, as there was so little risk of exposure before that time. The need for vaccination against hepatitis is much lower than the need for immunization against the diseases of childhood, but, as the hepatitis vaccine is genetically engineered, there is essentially zero risk of ill effects, so I felt it was well worth getting.

Paula Burch pburch@bcm.tmc.edu

===============================================================================
From: jag@ampex.com (Rayaz Jagani)

(It would be easier to answer/comment if the questions were enumerated, I hope the following does not further confuse the issue)

I tend not to allow my child to be vaccinated.

My HMO (Kaiser Permanente), has not given me actual numbers of efficacy/side effects over the life of an average person. I understand that the definition of side effects is what happens within 6 weeks. If the effects are known to be longer, why should side effects be of shorter duration?

My wife, who is an M.D. thinks differently. Our son got all the recommended shots. I had my fingers crossed. He also got the works for our recent trip to India/Pakistan. I don't think it worked as he did land up with stools etc., was prescribed some anti-biotic (Bactrin or something).

I dont take any shots when I visit that region; but then, I grew up there, not that I was vaccinated regularly there :-)

About the hepatitis B shots, not enough is known. Also, should babies be given this or more likely adolescents... if they are becoming sexually active. Apparently, they do get some residual effects from their infancy vaccines.

My conclusion is, that if you are looking for answers, a long term view, and hard numbers, there is a lot of gray area. All the numbers are based on samples, statistics, control groups, duration of followup, etc. You decide what you want to bet on, in this russian roulette.

There may also be a legal requirement in public schools, private schools can probably do anything they wish. I think you can get around public school limitations, however, you may have to go to court.

You may wish to hunt the sci.med archives for more discussion; I dont know how enlightening you will find it :-). Below is an example:

EX:From: mcdonald@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (J. D. McDonald)
EX:Newsgroups: sci.med
EX:Subject: Re: infant seizures after vaccination
EX:Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 13:52:43 GMT
[deleted rest of header]
EX:In article <93245.161304ICGLN@ASUACAD.BITNET>  writes:
EX:>Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 16:13:04 MST
EX:>From: 
EX:>Subject: Re: infant seizures after vaccination
EX:
EX:>nnget 93245.161304
EX:>In article , geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) says:
EX:>>
EX:>>
EX:>>Seizures and epilepsy are not uncommon in children.  They often begin
EX:>>about the age that the child is vaccinated.  No correlation has
EX:>>been shown between the vaccine and the development of epilepsy.
EX:>>It is likely just coicidence.  The child needs a good pediatric
EX:>>neurologist.  Denver is likely the only place in the State of
EX:>>COlorado that has one.
EX:>>
EX:>>--
EX:>Given that a large portion of children are vaccinated; and that seizures and
EX:>epilepsy occur around the same time as vaccination; how could one possible say
EX:>that no correlation has been shown. Where are the controls in this study?
EX:
EX:>Certainly not every vaccinated child has seizures. And not every child will be
EX:>allergic to milk, either. The fact that not every child has a reaction to
EX:>vaccinations is no argument against the notion that they may cause reactions
EX:>in
EX:>some. Unlike the milk allergy, where one can eliminate milk from the diet and
EX:>see if the condition gets better, it is not possible to unvaccinate someone.
EX:>While the connection is not absolute, there are **NO** grounds for dismissing
EX:>vaccinations as a possible source of health complications.
EX:
EX:
EX:There is NO reasonable doubt that vaccination with the pertussis vacine
EX:can cause permanent and serious neurological harm. That has been
EX:proven again and again in court cases in the US. In fact, just this
EX:last week another child was awarded millions of dollars in damages
EX:after being brain-damaged by this vaccine. Note that one need 
EX:not make any qualifications about that .. not "may have been", but
EX:"was". This is simply no longer debateable. It is only this one vaccine thaty
EX:does this. It is often given in combination with two other vaccines.
EX:If those are given alone, the vaccine is safe.
EX:
EX:The vaccine is still required in some places EVEN THOUGH it is known
EX:that it can cause SERIOUS harm to children. 
EX:
EX:Doug McDonald 

In article you write:
>These first questions are meant for people anywhere on the spectrum
>as far as what vaccinations they chose to give or not give their
>children. What vaccines did you (will you) choose to give or not give
>your children?

Morganne received 1 dose of DPT, 2 doses of DT, 3 doses of oral polio and 1 dose of MMR. Matisse has received 1 dose of tetanus vaccine and we plan to vaccinate her for polio. Both girls will receive rubella vaccinations at puberty (if they show no immunity at that time).

>What were your reasons for making the choices you did?

I was undecided with Morganne but decided to vaccinate her anyway. After she had severe reactions to the pertussis and MMR vaccines, I did more reading and consulted with the doctor. We came up with the following:

1) Additional doses of pertussis or MMR could be dangerous or deadly
for Morganne and were not advised for siblings, either.
2) The side effects of the diptheria, pertussis, measles, mumps
and rubella vaccines are a greater health risk to healthy
children than the diseases themselves.
3) There are concerns about vaccines wearing off. I would rather
my children contract mild illnesses (mumps, rubella, chicken pox,
measles) as children. I am haunted by the prospect of a population
of young women whose immunity to rubella may wear off just as
they begin to bear children.
4) The risks of tetanus and polio (and the safety of the vaccines)
are greater than the risks of the vaccines. So my children will
receive these vaccines.
5) The risk of rubella in a pregnant woman is very troublesome.
Therefore, I will delay this vaccine until puberty. This will
give them a chance to receive more effective immunity from the
natural disease and will also put them at lower risk for
reduced vaccine immunity in their childbearing years.

>How did you go about making your decisions, and what resources did you
>find helpful in getting the information you needed?

Our family doctor was very helpful. I also found the writings of Robert Mendelsohn and George Wootan (both MDs) very helpful. Mothering magazine was another good source of information. George Wootan's book has an especially good section on the risks and benefits of the various vaccines.

>For parents who have vaccinated your children, do you have any advice for
>parents who are about to have their children vaccinated about things they
>should be prepared for?

Know what severe reactions to watch out for and take any unusual reactions seriously. I didn't know until later that Morganne's reaction could have resulted in brain damage or death. Report the reactions to your doctor.

Prepare for mild illness for 1 week to 10 days after the vaccination. It can and does happen.

>For parents who have not given the recommended infant vaccinations, are
>you planning to have your children vaccinated later? Why or why not?

I covered this above, but will summarize.

1) The effectiveness of some vaccines (particularly pertussis) is
questionable.
2) The incidence of diptheria is quite low and diptheria is now
treatable.
3) Measles, mumps, rubella and chickenpox are mild childhood diseases
with few side effects for healthy children. (These diseases are
dangerous for malnourished children, however).
4) Each vaccine carries certain risks.
5) The immunity conferred by a vaccine is generally shorter-lived and
less complete than the immunity conferred by the natural disease.

Note that we are choosing to vaccinate for polio and tetanus.

>In particular, would you vaccinate your daughter for rubella when she hits
>puberty? Why or why not?

Yes. Childhood rubella vaccinations seem short-sighted to me in light of the tendency for the rubella vaccine to wear off. But young women need immunity to rubella to protect their unconceived children.

>(Please mail responses to this account.  Your name will be included inthe
>FAQ unless you specify otherwise.)
>
>If anyone is interested in reviewing the FAQ when I have written a draft, 
>send me email (I have one person reviewing it already).  I have found 
>some information about vaccinations in other countries, so I no longer 
>need that question answered, but if anyone on sci.med (or on misc.kids, 
>for that matter) can suggest good resources to check to keep this FAQ 
>current after I have written it, I'd welcome them (one thing I've noticed 
>in my research is that there are lots of changes happening).
>
>Lynn Gazis-Sax
>
>
>
>

===============================================================================
From: kellihmt@ausable.crd.ge.com (Margaret T Kelliher)

Lynn,
Here's my 2 cents. Hope it's what you're looking for.
Margaret

We've given all recommended vaccinations so far (15 mos and 4 years) We did delay certain of Colleen's shots because she had a very rough neonatal period and we couldn't see stressing her system more than necessary.

Why did we do this? All these things are a bet. Given the relative rates of disease, and the seemingly bad effects of these diseases, and the relatively low risks of the shots, it seemed a good bet to take the shots. (And it makes it easier to get into school and day care.)

I did a little reading (Parents, and a few articles my doctor gave me at my request), but in large part, I trusted my doctor, who has always answered my questions to my satisfaction. With the hepatitis B, I also talked to several other doctors: ob/gyn & pediatric neurologist in particular, and read some articles on the subject.

Advice:

Give them tylenol immediately after the DPT shot.

For all shots, leave extra cuddle time in the schedule. If nursing, try to make an opportunity to nurse the baby immediately after the shot. Once they are verbal, prepare them for it (but not too graphically).

Always ask questions about the shots effects and what to look for. DPT especially; I believe that the first adverse reaction is supposed to be somewhat mild; while subsequent ones are more likely to be devastating. I would not allow a second one if the first one raised a question.

===============================================================================
From: carolp@teleport.com (Carolyn Peterson)

Pertussis vaccine.

This vaccine is one that many parents worry about giving their children. They do so for good reason. There is a lot of information out saying that the vaccine could cause problems with their child's health. Who wouldn't worry!

Unfortunately, the possibility of getting the illness and problems from the illness does not seem to be publicized as much as the potential complications from the vaccine are. Pertussis, or whooping cough, is still present today and can easily be transmitted. The last booster for the illness is given around 4-6 years, after that the illness isn't severe, so boosters aren't given. Adults can have the disease and just think they have a bad cold. It's a completely different story for infants.

Friends of ours came down with colds and a bad cough. They continued their normal routine. Their 3 month old daughter also came down with the "cold". The disease reached the pertussis stage while the mother and child were thousands of miles from home. The baby had horrible coughing spells, projectile vomiting and apnea attacks after the coughing. She was hospitalized for 3 weeks, with 8 days of that in ICU due to whooping cough (or pertussis).

Our 3 month old child and several other infants that age had all been exposed to the disease at a play group. The infants received their second vaccination early and were put on erythromycin for 10 days as a precaution. That stuff is wicked for young children. After one day, our daughter started screaming at the sight of the antibiotic bottle. It took two of us to get the medicine down her and we were fortunate that she only needed two doses a day. The only thing that gave us the strength to force her to take the medicine was the knowledge that our friends' child was so ill many miles away.

During this time, we learned that whooping cough is still quite active in the United States. Countries that don't vaccinate against it have children dying from the disease each year (I don't have the numbers any more.) The immunization isn't complete until after the 3rd shot at six months. Even then, there is a small chance they could come down with the disease. The only other case of pertussis that our pediatrician had seen at the time was from a child who had been vaccinated, but still came down with the disease. --
Carolyn Peterson
carolp@teleport.COM

===============================================================================
From: Diane Lin

Our son has been given the full range of immunizations--polio, DPT (diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus), MMR (measles, mumps, rubella), Hib (meningitis), and Hepatitis-B. We made the decision to have our son vaccinated for all of these because (a) we felt there was a moral duty to have him vaccinated, both to escape the free-rider problem, and to contribute to the herd immunity**, (b) the risk of serious side-effects did not outweigh the benefits of immunization, and (c) the increased numbers of children who are not immunized is steadily going up, which increases the chances of an epidemic, and while most of the diseases are fairly minor, we didn't see the point in exposing our son unnecessarily. In making our decision, we spoke to our pediatrician, other parents, and read the views expressed in misc.kids :-).

When our son got his first DPT shot, he cried for about 4 hours afterwards, and I was at a loss to comfort him. After calling my husband to come home, we were finally able to get a little bit of Infant Tylenol into our son's system. That helped tremendously so that he could nurse and be comforted. After that, we made sure we gave him some Infant Tylenol just before he got his shots, to ease the discomfort. Also, after his first MMR shot, I had forgotten that some kids display symptoms of measles anywhere from a few days to a week after the immunization. I didn't panic, but I wish I had kept that in mind!

-- 
Diane C. Lin			"The only rational way of educating
dlin@weber.ucsd.edu	         is to be an example."
(Dylan's mom, 2-3/4 years)	                --  Albert Einstein

This is on my home page. "Stay tuned to this page. My next story will be concerning "Are Vaccines Really Safe.?" Moms, please do your research on the safety of vaccinations BEFORE YOU VACCINATE YOUR BABY."

This is a very controversial topic. I hope I can give you enough info to research and make up your own mind as to whether you should or shouldn't vaccinate your child.

PLEASE GO TO A MEDICAL LIBRARY AND DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH. You will get so much more out of this than you will believe from me. I start my research on vaccine safety before my son was born so that when the time came for me to decide I would make an informed decision and not let anyone sway me from my decision based on facts and not heresy from a doctor, nurse, or my own mother!

The most alarming stats came from the 3 in 1 shot called the dpt shot. D=Diphtheria (epidemic disease affecting mainly the throat and air passages) P=Pertussis a.k.a. Whooping cough (infectious disease marked by fits of convulsive coughing, followed by characteristic loud whoop or indrawing of breath) T=Tetanus (disease in which a virus causes spasms of violent muscular contraction; a.k.a lockjaw)

The following is a disclaimer that is on all vaccine inserts: "As with any vaccine, vaccination may not result in sero-conversion in all individuals".

Sero-conversion = vaccine may not necessarily result in blood antibodies, and hence, nay not work in everyone.

What they don't give you are the stats on just how many times the vaccine does work.
Example: 1989 Ohio, Pertussis outbreak. 82% of the children that contracted the Pertussis were already fully vaccinated. The children that were vaccinated against the Pertussis had just as bad a case as if they had not been vaccinated at all. You hear all the time that "if you are vaccinated and you come into contact with the virus you will either escape from contracting the virus at all or you will have a lesser/easier case of the virus than the person who isn't vaccinated at all." All of the research that I could get my hands on proved that statement to be utterly false.

This is a hard statement for me to make due to the fact that I love my child and I would never knowingly inflict any pain on that beautiful gift from God. However, I can not knowingly give my child a vaccine knowing what I know today.

Here are the facts:
1. Acquired immunity in childhood will last a lifetime. Most infectious diseases contracted in childhood are not fatal and are fully recoverable. Contract the same said infectious disease in adulthood and you might die.

2. Risk benefit analysis is for you to decide. THANK GOD. Our government and the medical community would have you believe that your child can't attend daycare or school without being vaccinated against everything known to man and that is NOT TRUE. Fact: you can send your child to daycare and school. Here is how.
A. Religious exemption,
B. Doctor's note exempting the child from vaccination,
C. Several states have statutes exempting mandatory vaccination.

3. No one knows how long vaccines last in the first place hence the supposedly necessary evil of boosters. (This was a big WOW for me!) Note: refer back to #1.

4. Time line for infants to receive vaccine is made up from several recommendations based on lab results from pharmacuetical companies. Result = the ultimate conflict of interest.

5. CDC maintains that all infectious diseases can be controlled by vaccinating the entire population. I found No evidence to support their claim. In fact the more I search the more I concluded that vaccines do not work and in fact are responsible for the following; High/high fever resulting in frying the brain causing sever seizures leading up to and causing a stroke and eventually possibly death, ADD = Attention Deficit Disorder, Hypertention/hypersensitivity, break down of the bodies own immune system (draw your own conclusion from THAT), and the list goes own on from the hugh side effects from vaccinations.

6. Fact: if the patient has a reaction (red swelling around shot area, fever , fits of loud crying, etc.) discontinue remaing vaccination schedule. The doctor will maintain and the CDC and AMA will maintain that all babies and adults will have some sort of reaction to a shot. Your pediatrician will continue with the shot schedule unless you ask to have the shots discontinued. Also, ask the doctor to document your childs reaction and forward the patient record to the CDC. I had a terrible time getting any stats on low level reactions. High level reactions were no problem. All of these reactions were recorded via emergency room visits and the morgue. 602 deaths in 1994 were attributed to vaccines. 30,000 recorded sever injuries from vaccines. Our government has a vaccine fund set up to pay off survivors.

I could go on and on. I started asking a few questions on a couple of chat lines and I was overwhelmed by the response. 95% of the responses were solidly against vaccines.
One of the responses was from a lady in Dayton, Ohio - Kristine M. Severyn, R. Ph., Ph.D., Director of "Ohio Parents for Vaccine Safety". She is your best contact for up-to-date info on Vaccine Safety. Phone and fax:(513) 435-4750 Address: 251 W. Ridgeway Dr., Dayton, Ohio 45459.

7. Last but not least and definitely very important - New Chickenpox vaccine called VARIVAX made by Merck and Co. will be used on our children as if they were guinea pigs for company profits. Merck's own literature states "The duration of protection is unknown at present and the need for booster doses is not defined."

8. Post marketing studies of vaccines utilize the federal Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS). The government that maintains this system dismisses VAERS reports as "anecdotal".

Vaccine package insert is the place to start when doing your research. Please obtain from doctor or pharmacist before you take your child in for their "scheduled" vaccination. Several good books: "The Immunization Resource Guide" reviews more than 60 books covering all aspects of vaccinations, Several places on the internet.